In a message dated 30/10/2004 17:18:54 GMT Daylight Time, sineadoconnorfan@... writes: >>What have you been able to achieve and how did you do it, and also how long did it take?<< Did you look at the link to Rawn's site that I posted? 500 people giving their experience of magic should be plenty to interest you. They give the specific time and how easy or otherwise. Please look at it! See also Rawn's essays - 'Spontaneous Magic', 'Sowantha', etc. That should give you an idea. Bill Mistele's site (_http://www.lava.net/~pagios/_ (http://www.lava.net/~pagios/) ) has more of interest. There are many magicians but few are brave enough like Rawn to talk openly about what has happened to them, especially like this just to satisfy someone's curiosity. Nobody can make up your mind whether to do magic or not except you; moreover I think you will find relatively few people on this list stating their experiences openly in reply to your question. The reason is simple: magic is very, very personal. What you have asked is, although you might not have realised it, a very intimate question. If you have read IIH you know the stress Bardon lays on Silence. Jason [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]