Dear Rawn, >>>>>Jeesh! You're really keeping me on my toes today, Peter! ;-) After I'm done with this one, my poor brain's gonna need a long rest! ;-) ;-)<<<<< Always glad to be of service. :-) I just do this naturally at times: asking the hard, complex questions on topics that no body really seems to speak about all that much for one reason or another. Also, don't worry, there's plenty more where this came from. >>>>>EVERY thing is composed of the Fluids and their Elements. So, in this sense, form itself is a sort of Fluid *combiner*. This is different from a Fluid *condenser* in that the condenser can hold onto an additional accumulation of the Fluids, separate from the Fluids which compose its form. Another thing that distinguishes a condenser from other forms is that holding onto a really, really intense accumulation will not harm the condenser itself.<<<<< Alright, this is starting to make a little bit more sense too me now. Though there are still quite a few questions that keep on popping up in my mind to try and make sense of this all. While everything is composed of the fluids and the elements, due to the intrinsic nature of form that is manifest. So what is it that keeps these elements and fluids bound together in form? The existence of all four elements within all things? >>>>>The human being can be *transformed into* a Fluid condenser, but without this work of self-transformation, the human body is not, strictly speaking, a natural condenser. For example, when you load another person with an accumulation of a Fluid/Element, it will, with time, dissipate. The body does not *automatically* hold the accumulation. Plus, the body can be easily damaged by too intense an accumulation being present for too long a time.<<<<< >From my personal experience, the process of self-transformation is a rather long and sometimes rather painful task that takes a multitude of lifetimes to complete. Yet, at the very same time, the process which Bardon describes as to how to create a fluid condenser is a relatively simple process that doesn't take overly that much time to complete. So, how does the process of changing the self, which itself consists of the fluids and elements, into a fluid condenser differs from the transformation of the plants that Bardon lists as being the key ingredients in creating a universal fluid condenser into a universal fluid condenser? Is not both the human body, and such plant material, consist of the same fluids and condesners? Albeit, perhaps in different levels of elemental and fluid concentrations? When trying to heal someone by loading them with an accumulation of specific elements/fluids, how is the effect take place? If health is defined as a healthy elemental equilibrium and dis-ease is defined as an imbalance in the elemental equilibrium, usually a quite radical one, then would not attempting to heal a person through the elements/fluids be just a temporary fix? After all, with time, the accumulated elements/fluids that was projected into the other person would dissipate in time, perhaps resulting in the original dis-ease returning as the elemental imbalance returns. Also, wouldn't loading a person with that amount of charge effect them negatively? Or does an accumulated charge dissipate from a living body before it can do any serious damage? Or is my methodology behind healing via the elements and fluids totally off base? >>>>>By following the Bardon training you are transforming yourself in the ways necessary for you to become a Fluid/Element condenser which will automatically *hold* an accumulated charge for as long as desired, without harm. In certain circumstances this is a useful ability since it frees the consciousness from the labor of recharging an accumulation during an overly-long ritual. But then again, it's a minor advantage since the same effect can be accomplished in other ways (such as loading a separate condenser).<<<< Isn't this, in effect, what one should be working on in the physical exercises of step 4 in IIH? Gaining the ability to create and direct an accumulated charge towards a specific goal via the use of certain gestures. How would the ability to hold an accumulated charge for as long as desired effect one's elemental equilibrium? After all, if you held onto a charge of electric fluid then an imbalance has been produced. Or could one counteract this by holding onto a charge of both the fluids and all four of the elements? >>>>>Yes. This is *part of* the transformation process that enables your bodies to actually hold an accumulation without damage and without the need for constant replenishment. It's very much akin to what an Alchemist does to the materia at certain stages, wherein a process is repeated over and over until the materia reaches a certain fluidity. The structure of the materia is factually altered and this leads to new characteristics and capacities, etc.<<<<< Is also possible to create a fluid condenser by repeatedly loading something and letting the charge dissipate until the charge no longer dissipates at all? How would this sort of fluid condenser differ from the fluid condensers that Bardon describes in IIH? Would there be any real qualitative or quantitative differences between these two types of fluid condensers? If it is possible to create a fluid condenser by repeated, and increased accumulation, of a charge, the I can see quite a number of things that might be considered fluid condensers in a loose sense of the term, language in and of itself being one of the first to come to the forefront of my mind. Words being attached to certain emotions as they are spoken, allowing for the elemental charge of the emotion to seep into the cognitive matrix that makes up that word. Symbols would be another such thing that could be potentially created into such a fluid condenser. Religious symbols such as the cross being a prime example of this as it is widely used and recognized, and therefore has a greater ability to maintain a charge. Whereas a lesser known symbol, such as the fish within Christianity does not have the same sort of effect as the cross. From symbols one can extrapolate into the realm of dreams and mythology. And from there I seem to be coming to the logical conclusion that many things can potentially become a fluid condenser in this manner. It is just up to the magician to learn how to utilize all this. I'm really going to have to meditate on this for some time. >>>>>The preparatory Steps of KTQ are a continuation of the aforementioned process of transformation of the materia, but at a higher pitch, so to speak. In order for the KTQ transformations to have the correct effect upon the individual, the prerequisite transformations (Steps One through Eight of IIH) must already have taken firm hold. In other words, the preparatory Steps of KTQ only work (properly) upon a sufficiently prepared materia. Only after the materia has been transform again by the KTQ preparatory work, is one able to then *speak* Kabbalistically.<<<<<< As I have stated elsewhere, in the past, I had, and still have to a certain extent, a tendency to work at things in a non-linear manner. In other words I'd be working on various exercises of steps two, five, seven and eight of IIH at relatively the same time. A few months ago I even ventured to try step one of KTQ, which, to be honest, had a rather profound positive impact on my attitude and character. Granted, the effect that took place might not be rightly considered to be the proper transformation that would take place within a student that is properly prepared, which I don't consider myself to be, but it is a positive change never the less. At the present moment, I'm working in a far more systematic method through which I am starting at step one in IIH and working my way through them, one after the other, till I've gained a reasonable level of efficiency. >>>>>Kabbalistic speech itself however, is *more than* a condenser. It's more akin to a Philosopher's Stone in that it *automatically* accumulates, combines and sets into motion, the Fluids, without the need for loading by the magician. Kabbalistic speech is a creative act that *instantly* gives *form to* the raw, undifferentiated Fluids/Elements.<<<<< Okay, this makes sense. Quabalahistic speach = the ability to make form from force. Which in turn seems to be a short from for the exercises that one finds within the step 4 physical training of IIH. Digressing back to a point you made in a previous posting, you noted that a physical fluid condenser, would effect the physical, astral and mental planes. Whereas an astral fluid condenser would only effect the astral and mental planes, and a mental fluid condenser would effect only the mental plane. At the present moment my mind does not want to comprehend this for one reason or another. So, why is this? Doesn't an effect on the mental plane in turn effect the astral, which in turn effects the physical, and vis a vis? Live well, and try not to get too many headaches from reading all this! Peter Reist