Dear Peter, Jeesh! You're really keeping me on my toes today, Peter! ;-) After I'm done with this one, my poor brain's gonna need a long rest! ;-) ;-) Let me start in the middle first: >> What is the difference between a fluid condenser and a substance that is naturally composed of the fluids and elements? Also, isn't pretty much everything composed of the fluids and elements? << EVERY thing is composed of the Fluids and their Elements. So, in this sense, form itself is a sort of Fluid *combiner*. This is different from a Fluid *condenser* in that the condenser can hold onto an additional accumulation of the Fluids, separate from the Fluids which compose its form. Another thing that distinguishes a condenser from other forms is that holding onto a really, really intense accumulation will not harm the condenser itself. >> So then the human body would itself be a fluid condenser in and of itself, correct? After, through the numerous exercises in IIH Bardon has the student drawing in and accumulating the elements, fluids and lights within the self. << The human being can be *transformed into* a Fluid condenser, but without this work of self-transformation, the human body is not, strictly speaking, a natural condenser. For example, when you load another person with an accumulation of a Fluid/Element, it will, with time, dissipate. The body does not *automatically* hold the accumulation. Plus, the body can be easily damaged by too intense an accumulation being present for too long a time. By following the Bardon training you are transforming yourself in the ways necessary for you to become a Fluid/Element condenser which will automatically *hold* an accumulated charge for as long as desired, without harm. In certain circumstances this is a useful ability since it frees the consciousness from the labor of recharging an accumulation during an overly-long ritual. But then again, it's a minor advantage since the same effect can be accomplished in other ways (such as loading a separate condenser). >> However, at the same time, I do believe Bardon writes that you should gradually increase the accumulated charge within the body so not to overload the body like a capacitor or a circut breaker. In which case the intrinsic ability for the body to retain an accumulated charge can be changed with practice. << Yes. This is *part of* the transformation process that enables your bodies to actually hold an accumulation without damage and without the need for constant replenishment. It's very much akin to what an Alchemist does to the materia at certain stages, wherein a process is repeated over and over until the materia reaches a certain fluidity. The structure of the materia is factually altered and this leads to new characteristics and capacities, etc. >>>>You are correct in your idea of astral and mental condensers. A physical Fluid condenser immediately effects all three realms simultaneously and must be created within the physical realm, out of physical materia; an astral condenser, effects the astral and mental realms simultaneously and must be created within the astral realm, out of astral materia; and a mental condenser, effects only the mental realm immediately and, likewise, must be created within the mental realm, out of mental materia. The process of creating astral and mental condensers requires a ficility with each of these realms and the direct manipulation of their respective materia. For example, in order to create an astral condenser you would need to directly shape the astral materia itself, be able to finalize its form (i.e., give it stable duration), and then load it with an appropriate accumulation of Fluids/Elements. All of these tasks would need to be carried out within the astral realm.<<<<< >> I might be totally off base here, but isn't that the procedure within the first few steps of The Key to True Quaballah? Which might account for the changes that happen when one works with those exercises. << The preparatory Steps of KTQ are a continuation of the aforementioned process of transformation of the materia, but at a higher pitch, so to speak. In order for the KTQ transformations to have the correct effect upon the individual, the prerequisite transformations (Steps One through Eight of IIH) must already have taken firm hold. In other words, the preparatory Steps of KTQ only work (properly) upon a sufficiently prepared materia. Only after the materia has been transform again by the KTQ preparatory work, is one able to then *speak* Kabbalistically. Kabbalistic speech itself however, is *more than* a condenser. It's more akin to a Philosopher's Stone in that it *automatically* accumulates, combines and sets into motion, the Fluids, without the need for loading by the magician. Kabbalistic speech is a creative act that *instantly* gives *form to* the raw, undifferentiated Fluids/Elements. My best to you, :) Rawn Clark 03 Jan 2003 rawnclark@... rawn@... http://www.ABardonCompanion.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BardonPraxis