Dear NB, Sorry for the delay in replying -- I was out of town from Monday through late Wednesday and am only now getting caught up. :) >> In Rawn's comments on IIH, I read in the "Theory Section": <<The magnetic Fluid *gives form* to the Electric force>> Taking this literally, meaning that the creation deriving from the Electric force takes actual shape through the influence of the magnetic Fluid, is it possible to infer that Water gives form to Fire ? << In that passage, I was speaking mainly to the idea of the polar opposites of "force" and "form", which the Fluids represent. At that level of Philosophic constructs, then yes, Water does give form to Fire, but in the context of the three planes wherein all four Elements work in unison, I would phrase this differently. In that context, Water is the "tendency toward Form" and Fire, the "tendency toward Force". In other words, Fire releases the Elemental composite from its binding of Form and Water increases its binding to its Form. "Shrinking" or constricting something is the same as *condensing* its form. At a molecular level for example, cold slows down the bouncing of atoms off each other and the distance between the atoms decreases (i.e., the form condenses and constricts); whereas, heat speeds up the bouncing and this increases the distance between the atoms, expanding the form. My best to you, :) Rawn Clark 23 Oct 2003 rawnclark@... rawn@... http://www.ABardonCompanion.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BardonPraxis http://E.webring.com/hub?ring=arionthebardonwe