Re: [BardonPraxis] Re: What does it mean to become noble concerning passions?

["Rawn Clark" <rawnclark@...>]

Dear Ravi,

>> ok . fair enough :-) I *thought* I was on topic :-) <<

:) You were and are on topic. That's not the issue I was raising. My
point is that this begs to be related to your actual experience . . .
which you have now done. :)

>> I guess this does reflect my experience in a way . But that is a
long story . Suffice to say that when i created my mirror with "good"
and "bad " attributes , with the "good" and"bad" coming from social
conditioning and "socially accepted" mores, i found myself striving to
become someone *I* didn't want to be . The "how *you* feel and think is
good " meme , in one of Rawn's earlier mails struck a chord and hence my
posts . One simple example is an item on my mirror "Pride" . I plonked
this into the "black" mirror and intended to work towards being "humble"
(culturally pride = bad, humility == good ).On reflection, i find there
are TWO kinds of hunility , <<

There are more than two kinds of humility and even more kinds of
"pride". This is why I recommend that one not use such big words that
encompass so many possible meanings and work instead with *very* precise
statements that accurately describe *your* specific and unique character
trait. It's not as simple as merely making a list of words -- they must
each mean something *very* specific to *you*.

>> I am now redoing my mirror based on who and what *I* want to become .
<<

Excellent! :) :)

>> I guess in a nutshell, i find that many of my mirror items are
misclassified and the "bad" items have components of"good" and vice
versa .Now my mirror is looking very different , and many of my
"positives" and "negatives" don't look anything like my "culture
sanctioned" values . I guess there is still some residual confusion
there . <<

It is normal that as you learn about yourself and about the process,
your Mirrors will change to reflect your own greater understanding.

> What did you think Bardon's listing of the positive and negative
> characteristics was about if not a *universal* statement of positive
> BEing?
>> Ahhh but i thought we should NOT rely on BArdon's charactersitics? <<

I believe that what I have said is that his list is not *enough* and
that while it might provide some general ideas we must not *rely* upon
it in whole. In other words, it does no good to just copy down the
words Bardon listed that we identify with. We *must* come up with our
*own* descriptions that accurately describe what *we* see inside of
*our* selves because, regardless of the fact that there are shared
Universal principles underlying our characters, we each express/manifest
them *uniquely*. Bardon could only point to or hint at these Universal
principles in very broad terms but could not have described their
*infinite* variety of expression.

> How *you* feel *inside* is not rooted in your culture. It is
*modified*
> by your culture, but the root is in *you* (i.e., the Individual Self).
>> ok . i need to think on this further . <<

I recommend that in addition to thinking about it further, you also
*observe* yourself in action. Analyze *yourself* instead what you
theorize are the possible motivations of others

>> i often found myself trying to be "humble" magnanimous" etc and
feeling and being very ineffective in real world situations consequently
. <<

Then perhaps you are not being true to what these things really mean to
*you* or true to how *you* really feel in those situations.

>> I was just trying to make the point that with mirror work one should
become MORE effective not less in the physical world and if not there
is something wrong . I am sure it is blindingly obvious to lots of
people. :-| <<

Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say it's blindingly obvious to *lots*
of people. ;-) It is however a very valuable gauge of how you're doing
with your character transformation. By definition, when successful, the
character transformation *does* render you more effective in every
aspect of your life. If it's having the opposite effect then yes,
something is "wrong" with your process.

My best to you as always,
:) Rawn Clark
23 Jan 2005
rawnclark@...
rawn@...
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