Dear Jon, >> I've had a similar question brewing. After reading Frabato, and in particular "While they were being flogged, Quintscher lost his self-control. He uttered a Kabbalistic formula, whereupon the torturers were immediately paralyzed completely." I've been wondering whether it is acceptable to use magic for self-defence (not that I'm anywhere near being able to do that :) ). Why does this show a loss of self-control? Isn't protection from physical harm allowed? << A true Kabbalist acts as a temporal agent of Divine Providence within the temporal realm whenever uttering a Kabbalistic formula. This means that the motivation for uttering the formula must *always* be rooted in some sort of Divine imperative. In the example of Quintscher's act, his use of the formula was rooted in his emotional reaction to what he was witnessing and not in any Divine imperative, thus signifying a loss of emotional self-control. In other words, he placed his own emotional needs above the responsibility inherent to the use of such a high power as that of a Kabbalistic formula and therefore debased the gift given to him by Divine Providence. The karmic consequences of such a loss of self-control are very far reaching and can take many lifetimes to redeem. This is why it always dismays me when I hear of folks playing around with the work of KTQ before they have truly undertaken the preparatory work and attained to the degree of self-control necessary. >> I've been wondering whether it is acceptable to use magic for self-defence << Ethically, the "lower" magics may be used for protection of self and others so long as this does not ever involve the causing of harm. The "higher" magics (such as Kabbalistic formulae) however, may only be used when there is a Divine imperative to do so. My best to you, :) Rawn Clark 03 Apr 2005 rawnclark@... rawn@... http://www.ABardonCompanion.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BardonPraxis http://E.webring.com/hub?ring=arionthebardonwe