How Do PME & KTQ Fit Into IIH?
>> This one was asked by a friend who has read Mr. Bardon's works but is not pursuing the work itself. "When one reaches the end of step 10 Mr. Bardon says there is nothing more he can tell the initiate for he has become one with Deity. Yet we have 2 more books after this!" <<
:) In the introductions to both PME and KTQ, Bardon stated that evocation and quabbalah should not be undertaken until the initiate has completed Step *Eight* -- not Step Ten. Step Eight concerns three primary abilities necessary for one to begin working with PME and KTQ: 1. mental wandering. 2. mastery of the Fluids. 3. magic influence through the Elements.
>> I gave the answer I thought that made sense , that the magician does not *need* those books, it just makes things easier on him to have the information instead of collecting it all by himself. <<
These books are more for the person just starting out with their pursuit of Hermetics, than they are for the master of Step Eight. They give the reader an idea of what is possible and provide something to look forward to.
>> - If the magician is merged with Deity, why would he need to read and learn how to evoke spirits or speak in the universal language. <<
They wouldn't. :)
>> Would not the merging bring the magician into that knowledge of the cosmic language and no need to evoke a spirit since they are one with God? What could a spirit tell you or why do you need to show your magical authority over a spirit when you are one with God? <<
The practice of magical evocation is a learning experience that, ideally, leads the magician *to* merging with Unity. This is why it's a work one begins *while working on Step Nine* of IIH. You might want to check out http://www.ABardonCompanion.com/WhyPME.html
>> I know there must be a quantum level of difference between personal Deity and the Unity. So as i see it one first merges with the personal Deity and then progresses up the Tree merging with higher god forms until they have the potential to accept a merger with the Unity. So is this where PME and KTQ come in? Possibly The merger with ones personal Deity is not as awe-some and connecting as i think and only a "device" to raise ones four primary aspects to a higher level. If this were the case I see that one would need to slowly work with spirits/geniuses up to deities until Unity is reached. So this beings me to : are books 2 and 3 apart of step 10 in a way? Meaning in step 10 spirit you rise along the planes up to Unity. In step 10 astral you build your personal god. This is not completed truly until one works on all three books at once integrating all these energies into the self, mastering the spherical sentient energies by evocation and the cosmic lawfulness by tetra-polar speech. <<
>> I have a friend who does ritual invocations of the Greek deities. I have seen these rituals and they are beautiful and fascinating. Now his face and demeanor change and you can tell that there is something different. Watching the aura around him I can see a completely different energy. Its more vibrant and more plentiful. He gives each one in the circle a dialog that is helpful or has some importance to the future. Now I know that Mr. Bardon says these are possessions. What I am wondering: Is this in some way what Mr. Bardon speaks of in the merging with personal Deity, except that one builds the Deity and not takes a "ready-made one"? <<
Merging with the personal deity is an expansion of *self*; whereas, possession is an invocation of *other* and an abandoning of self to that other presence. The effects of the true merging are permanent while the effects of possession are temporary.
>> When one is progressing up the spheres does one truly merge with the deities met? What makes it different than possession as spoken by Mr. Bardon before? <<
Yes and the difference is that it's a process of the magician expanding their *own* self-awareness so that it encompasses that of the deity. It is a sharing of self, not a possession of self.
>> Maybe I am wrong maybe one is only to converse with the deities as they rise up? This would still produce an effect within the initiate, most anyone recognizes the fact we all adapt to the environment or setting. Over a period of time it would make sense one would take on more deified qualities by being around them more. <<
:) Perhaps you should reconsider your definition of "conversing" with a *deity*? It's an entirely different kettle of fish than talking with your best friend . . . At these levels, communication *is* merging.
>> Would it be possible from a mere theoretical point of view to not create and merge with a personal Deity and only connect to the deities one meets along the way until finally reaching the Unity? If it were possible what would be the advantages or disadvantages of this process compared to the steps one should do as per Mr. Bardon. <<
Yes, it is possible. The disadvantage is one of the time it takes but that is variable and completely dependent upon one's karma. Bardon's method of the personal Deity (that reflects the characteristics of The Unity already) is generally much more rapid and certain. Another method is to aim for The Unity from the outset, putting aside all intermediaries or incomplete manifestations, but for most folks this is the hardest path of all.
>> I really am sympathetic to the types of ritual-less evocations Mr. Mistelle discusses on his site. I find them much more appealing than getting all dressed up, ritual weapons and wands, etc. etc. I know that when one masters a sphere one can do away with the tools and evoke without them. I know that the tools are there for the memory and the mind. So really it just takes one to "program" their mind right? <<
Yes, but working with tools is one of the best ways to "program" the mind and the emotions.
My best to you,
:) Rawn Clark
19 Aug 2004
>> So the initiate at step nine is making his ritual tools and charging them. In relation to his KTQ training begins learning the letters. It seems as if one can work more with KTQ than PME at this point. If one begins traveling through the elemental planes and the zone girdling the earth at step 10 than what spirits could they evoke properly? <<
It takes a few times of reading through these books to catch some of the subtleties. If you look closely at Step Nine, in the section where he talked about various uses of the Magic Mirror, among them you'll find reference to PME and contacting entities. Furthermore, in Step Eight, the magician is given the necessary tool for evocation to a *mental* density, namely mental wandering. By the end of Step Eight, the initiate is capable of making mental contact with an entity, which is the first stage of an evocation. So during Step Nine -plus- PME, one is learning how to evoke beings to a *mental* density and then later, to an astral and/or physical density.
My best to you,
:) Rawn Clark
21 Aug 2004