> Some in the "Zen School" say that the conscious gradual rise > through the planes is a waste of effort, because ultimately > the astral and mental realms are just as illusionary as our > everyday physical reality. Hi again! =) More intriguing questions! My feeling right now, is that speculation about astral and mental realms is really beside the point before one really -knows- them. Waste of effort, ppft =)). Spiritual practices should work! Anything that works is not a waste of effort, heck it could even be something as trivial as a public speaking course. Because... for every little things a person does that work, the more fit he/she becomes to personally evaluate what that final "ultimately" really is, if it is. =) Spiritual "ability" is directly related to ones capacity for knowledge. Best regards, Severian