Dear Rawn, >>>Yet these works are part of the Briatic Redemption and the creative descent you note is an aspect of the "mini-recreation" which is integral to ascent. The true creative descent (first and second cycles of 231) comes much later, after one has completely mastered PME and KTQ and their techniques are taken to a higher level than Bardon indicated.<<< So we're looking at a process of acent, integration, and decent into the previous levels of self within each level of initiation in IIH, PME and KTQ. In which case initiation into the myseries is truely a creative re-shaping of the self so that it is in accord with that level of initiation. In which case, each of these "mini-recreations" would follow the path of creative decent of the first and second cycles. Allbeit upon a much smaller, individual, microcosmic level. Which makes it a similar process to that of mastering the akasha: one can not encompass all of infinity with any number of limited steps, but one must rather make a gigantic exponential leap at one point in time or another. In this case one must make another gigantic leap in order to encompass the whole of the macrocosm to be able to decend once more, *as* the macrocosm in the first and second cycles. Now, Bardon does hint at some extremely advanced works that are beyond the scope of PME and KTQ. The ones that comes to mind is the Kabbalahistic keys five through ten as well as working with beings of the realm of Pluto. The latter of which states is not relevant until the second day of creation, or the second cycle or some other such thing. Care to shead even a small thread of light upon these topics? I know you're generally rather hesitant to talk about anything beyond step five within IIH, and this makes step five look like an itsy bitsy speck of dust on the horizon. So if you're not willing to discuss this, or simply can't discuss this, I understand. >>>If nothing else, it will help you put the work of IIH, PME and KTQ into perspective with the context of the *four* cycles. It would also increase the solidity and profundity of the "mini-recreations" and of your overall ascent. You might also find it very enjoyable. :)<<< I'm sure I will. It's just a matter of figuring out how to fit it into my already relativly booked sceduel. Love and Live well, Peter Reist