In a message dated 11/22/2003 10:32:27 AM Pacific Standard Time, rawnclark@... writes: http://www.ABardonCompanion.com/Redemption.html Thanks for making your position clear; I do believe that the innocent can suffer through no fault of there own May be this is the group karma you speak of in your essay. Again Thanks TMN [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]