Re: [BardonPraxis] Re: Black Magic

["adeptus" <joa_adeptus@...>]

Dear Daniel and Rawn,

"In short, do whatever you can to protect yourself, but make sure
your actions indeed do come from the need for protection, and not
from the wish of revenge"

Obviously, I didn´t speak about harming others by magickal means with the
idea in mind of "seeking revenge" (Possibly I didn´t express myself very
clearly, because I don´t know why you have interpreted my words in this way.
Well, I recognize that my english is not very good :)), but with the idea of
survival, the pure instinct of self-preservation, nothing more.
I´ll put another example: if you are walking on the streets with your family
and a madman hits you or your mother, and you are good in martial arts,
undoubtedly you will make use of your martial knowledge (it is your moral
duty) and you will harm him, and not with the idea of seeking revenge, but
with the idea of self-defence and defend to your family.

"I do not think there are as many "kill or be killed" situations as
people think"

However, here in Spain the violence against the women is a social problem
very real, and all the years many women are brutally mistreated or killed by
her husbands. I don´t know exactly what´s the situation in other countries,
but for example, I have heard that in the United States there´s so much
social violence too.


"I assume that for a true magician who already knows the nature
of death and incarnation, the better action would be to let himself
be killed in such an extreme situation, but I honestly don't know."

Well, if the magician chooses don´t protect himself, that´s his personal
election. But, what about his loving beings? Must he resigns to see how they
are killed? If the magician refuses to protect them using black magic if it
is necessary, can this omission of help generate a bad karma to him? That´s
the question. Please, note that I am not talking about "seeking revenge" in
any way.


"Is the situation you discuss truly one where there is no other way
to resolve it other than killing the aggressor?"

Not necessarily. In fact, when someone plays with black magic, he is playing
with something very real and very dangerous, because it escapes easily to
your control and you never know what will be the final result of that game
or the magnitude of the harm that you really can create to others or to
yourself. This means, of course, to assume a great responsability. If you
make a work of black magic to harm seriously a person, you can kill him or
not, it depends, but if the work is correctly done, you will harm him
seriously and very possibly, his potential menace to you ends. In this point
I am in total accord with you, Rawn, when you say that in the practice of
magic, ethics plays a very important role, but in my humble opinion the life
can present situations very extreme and difficult where the best defence can
be a good attack. Do you agree with me?

"Is your thought
regarding the use of black magic, aimed at protection, or at revenge?"

Of course, ONLY like protection and ONLY in an extreme situation. Can be
karmically legitimate its use in this case?


I would like to know if my doubts are clear now.

Well, thank you very much for your attention!!!!! :) :)



JOA







----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Gutmanas" <noxerus@...>
To: <BardonPraxis@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 1:00 PM
Subject: [BardonPraxis] Re: Black Magic


Dear Joa,

> But I am in TOTAL disagreement with you when you say that the best
> response is "to ignore the threat and not to get paranoid". Well,
> I don´t believe that a person that has been threaten of death by
> a dangerous person (an assasin, for example) has "paranoia". He has
> REALLY a problem, and to ignore that can put in danger his own
> life. If you ignore a problem when you really have a problem, then
> you are doing the same thing that the ostrich: to hide your head
> under the ground.

I see how I misphrased my comment, but this is not what I meant. I
wanted to say that I believe that most "psychic" attacks are the
result of paranoia or fear, and that genuine "psychic" attacks are
rather rare. I never said that you should not respond to a real
attack - on the contrary, I think you should shield yourself from it.

>
>> "Instead of harming him, I think it is much
>> preferred to neutralize his attack"
>
> Well, let´s suppose that a woman is mistreated by her husband
> every day, physically and psychically. She informs on the police
> her case, but the police is absolutely negligent with this case
> (this is something very frequent in many parts of the world,
> unfortunately, and many women die).
> Well, could you say me what method must employ this woman
> to "neutralize his attack"? Sincerely, I haven´t got very clear
> how this woman could defend herself and those close to her (for
> example, her children, who, in many occasions are victims of the
> domestic violence too). The examples that I could put to you are
> innumerable...

Every such case (and unfortunately, I am aware that there are too
many of them) is different. In some, the woman with her children can
escape and move to her relatives, or some other safe haven, and
completely cut off their previous life with the abusing husband. In
many cases there does exist such an option, but the woman does not
realize that she is being abused or that she should protect herself
and her children. But I digress; the woman should most definitely
protect herself from the abuse, with the means available to her.
But, doing so should not entail harming the abusing husband out of
revenge.
For example, she might give him a sleeping pill, or tie him up, etc,
and then run away. Such an action, although it did hurt him, was
done out of necessity, and not out of revenge.
If, on the other hand, that woman would tie her husband up and then
kill him, it would already be revenge and "sense of justice", and
not just necessity.
In short, do whatever you can to protect yourself, but make sure
your actions indeed do come from the need for protection, and not
from the wish of revenge.
I do not think there are as many "kill or be killed" situations as
people think, and regarding those that do happen, I have no answer
yet - I assume that for a true magician who already knows the nature
of death and incarnation, the better action would be to let himself
be killed in such an extreme situation, but I honestly don't know.
Is the situation you discuss truly one where there is no other way
to resolve it other than killing the aggressor? Is your thought
regarding the use of black magic, aimed at protection, or at revenge?

I think that Rawn summed it up very well in his post (as he usually
does :).

Sincerely,
Daniel Gutmanas





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