Re: [BardonPraxis] Ponderations

["Rawn Clark" <rawnclark@...>]

Dear Justin,

>> This one was asked by a friend who has read Mr.Bardons works but not
pursuing the work it self. "When one reaches the end of step 10
Mr.Bardon says there is nothing more he can tell the initiate for he has
become one with Deity. Yet we have 2 more books after this!" <<

:) In the introductions to both PME and KTQ, Bardon stated that
evocation and quabbalah should not be undertaken until the initiate has
completed Step *Eight* -- not Step Ten. Step Eight concerns three
primary abilities necessary for one to begin working with PME and KTQ:
1. mental wandering. 2. mastery of the Fluids. 3. magic influence
through the Elements.

>> I gave the answer i thought that made sense , that the magician does
not *need* those books, it just makes things easier on him to have the
information instead of collecting it all by himself. <<

These books are more for the person just starting out with their pursuit
of Hermetics, than they are for the master of Step Eight. They give the
reader an idea of what is possible and provide something to look forward
to.

>> - If the magician is merged with Deity, why would he need to read and
learn how to evoke spirits or speak in the universal language. <<

They wouldn't. :)

>> Would not the merging bring the magician into that knowledge of the
cosmic language and no need to evoke a spirit since they are one with
God? What could a spirit tell you or why do you need to show your
magical authority over a spirit when you are one with God? <<

The practice of magical evocation is a learning experience that,
ideally, leads the magician *to* merging with Unity. This is why it's a
work one begins *while working on Step Nine* of IIH. You might want to
check out http://www.ABardonCompanion.com/WhyPME.html

>> - I know there must be a quantum level of difference between personal
Deity and the Unity. So as i see it one first merges with the personal
Deity and then progresses up the Tree merging with higher god forms
until they have the potential to accept a merger with the Unity. So is
this where PME and KTQ come in? Possibly The merger with ones personal
Deity is not as awe-some and connecting as i think and only a "device"
to raise ones four primary aspects to a higher level. If this were the
case i see that one would need to slowly work with spirits/geniuses up
to deities until Unity is reached. So this beings me to : are books 2
and 3 apart of step 10 in a way? Meaning in step 10 spirit you rise
along the planes up to Unity. In step 10 astral you build your personal
god. This is not completed truly until one works on all three books at
once integrating all these energies into the self, mastering the
spherical sentient energies by evocation and the cosmic lawfulness by
tetra-polar speech. <<

Yes.

>> - I have a friend who does ritual invocations of the Greek deities. I
have seen these rituals and they are beautiful and fascinating. Now his
face and demeanor change and you can tell that there is something
different. Watching the aura around him i can see a completely different
energy. Its more vibrant and more plentiful. He gives each one in the
circle a dialog that is helpful or has some importance to the future.
Now i know that Mr.Bardon says these are possessions. What i am
wondering: Is this in some way what Mr.Bardon speaks of in the merging
with personal Deity, except that one builds the Deity and not takes a
"ready-made one"? <<

Merging with the personal deity is an expansion of *self*; whereas,
possession is an invocation of *other* and an abandoning of self to that
other presence. The effects of the true merging are permanent while the
effects of possession are temporary.

>> When one is progressing up the spheres does one truly merge with the
deities met? What makes it different than possession as spoken by
Mr.Bardon before? <<

Yes and the difference is that it's a process of the magician expanding
their *own* self-awareness so that it encompasses that of the deity. It
is a sharing of self, not a possession of self.

>> Maybe i am wrong maybe one is only to converse with the deities as
they rise up? This would still produce an effect within the initiate,
most anyone recognizes the fact we all adapt to the environment or
setting. Over a period of time it would make sense one would take on
more deified qualities by being around them more. <<

:) Perhaps you should reconsider your definition of "conversing" with a
*deity*? It's an entirely different kettle of fish than talking with
your best friend . . . At these levels, communication *is* merging.

>> -Would it be possible from a mere theoretical point of view to not
create and merge with a personal Deity and only connect to the deities
one meets along the way until finally reaching the Unity? If it were
possible what would be the advantages or disadvantages of this process
compared to the steps one should do as per Mr. Bardon. <<

Yes, it is possible. The disadvantage is one of the time it takes but
that is variable and completely dependent upon one's karma. Bardon's
method of the personal Deity (that reflects the characteristics of The
Unity already) is generally much more rapid and certain. Another method
is to aim for The Unity from the outset, putting aside all
intermediaries or incomplete manifestations, but for most folks this is
the hardest path of all.

>> - I really am sympathetic to the types of ritual-less evocations Mr.
Mistelle discusses on his site. I find them much more appealing than
getting all dressed up, ritual weapons and wands, etc.etc. I know that
when one masters a sphere one can do away with the tools and evoke
without them. I know that the tools are there for the memory and the
mind. So really it just takes one to "program" their mind right? <<

Yes, but working with tools is one of the best ways to "program" the
mind and the emotions.

My best to you,
:) Rawn Clark
19 Aug 2004
rawnclark@...
rawn@...
http://www.ABardonCompanion.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BardonPraxis
http://E.webring.com/hub?ring=arionthebardonwe